The Value of Extended Enterprise LMS Consulting: Podcast 100

EPISODE 100: Inside Enterprise LMS Consulting

John Leh CEO Lead Analyst Talented Learning

John Leh, CEO and Lead Analyst, Talented Learning

Welcome to the Talented Learning Show, where we are celebrating our 100th episode! To mark this milestone, we’re flipping the hosting script.

That’s right, I’m today’s guest. I’ve asked Barry Kelly to take the mic and ask me about my LMS consulting journey and my thoughts on key enterprise learning trends.

Fans of this podcast will recall that Barry has appeared on some of our most popular episodes. As Founder and former CEO of Thought Industries, Barry is a true pioneer in the learning systems industry. Over the years, he has seen me up-close in my LMS consulting role, negotiating on behalf of buyers, and advising sellers on how to position their products for success.

That’s why I asked Barry to team up today for a freewheeling conversation about the past, present, and future of external learning. So, please join us as we discuss my approach to LMS consulting, my perspectives on the industry, and much more on this special “extended play” edition of the Talented Learning Show…

INSIDE ENTERPRISE LMS CONSULTING — KEY TAKEAWAYS

As you may know, I haven’t always been in the LMS consulting business. Before founding Talented Learning, I was an LMS sales leader for 14 years. And early in my career, I built custom digital instruction solutions.

Extended enterprise learning was my first obsession — and that’s still the case today. Why? It’s all about revenue and growth. Building a business case for educating customers, partners, and other external audiences is easy. That kind of investment is essential if you want your organization to be more competitive and see measurable impact.

Learning tech innovation is relentless and highly complex. But that’s why I’ve been hooked as an industry advocate since day one. There’s never a dull moment in LMS consulting. And I’m still enthusiastic about how the future is unfolding.

INSIDE ENTERPRISE LMS CONSULTING — Q&A HIGHLIGHTS

Welcome, John. I don’t know how many candidates you considered to host this episode, but it’s a pleasure to interview you.

You are the only person I asked, Barry. That’s because we became fast friends back in 2013, when we were both pioneers in extended enterprise learning — which was a world no one else cared about at that time.

Since then, we’ve spent countless hours talking, strategizing, and trying to help map this industry. So, I can’t think of a better person to turn the tables with me on this 100^th episode of our flagship podcast.

When we were founding Thought Industries, we couldn’t find any information to validate the market for external learning. It was crickets. Zero use cases. Then I discovered you. And ever since, it’s been an amazing journey.

Thanks, Barry.

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You’ve done so much for all of us in this market.

You so clearly understand the needs of companies that want to succeed at extended enterprise learning, as well as vendors that provide those systems. And you know how to bring together people who are looking for that kind of technology with companies that develop it.

Plus, your ability to map macro trends to micro-level features and roadmaps has been really valuable for us.

Wow. Nice. I knew I asked you to host today for a reason!

Ha. Well, today, we want to learn more about you. We’ll talk about this podcast and extended enterprise learning trends. And then we’ll do some rapid-fire questions and bring in the crystal ball so we can look at the future.

Sounds fun. I’m ready.

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Okay. So, John, tell us a bit about your career path…

Almost 30 years ago, I got a master’s degree in instructional technology. The program included a class called “Responding to RFPs,” where we worked in groups, pretending to be vendors.

Of course, everybody hated it. Except me. I loved that class.

So, when we graduated, I went right into a go-to-market function. I wanted to answer RFPs. And that led me to about 14 years of enterprise sales for two LMS providers.

During that time, I became one of a few people focused solely on external learning and development. I prospected 100% for external learning opportunities, and it represented 95% of my sales.

Then, about 12 years ago, I noticed the same thing you did. Nobody was talking about external learning. But I knew it was real because I was highly successful at selling those solutions.

When did you switch to LMS consulting?

Well, at that time, the bar was pretty low for extended enterprise LMS consulting. So, I thought, why not me?

That’s when I quit my job and started Talented Learning with thought leadership as my strategy. I started blogging about how to buy and sell systems, how to define LMS requirements, and best practices for buyers and sellers.

That’s fantastic.

It took nearly 6 months to find my first LMS consulting client. And since then, I’ve helped about 160 organizations manage a formal buying process.

I apply the same methodology over and over again, helping organizations figure out what they really need and taking them through a professional buying process.

With 1000 vendors out there, it’s very confusing for buyers to navigate through the marketplace. All these vendors do the same thing, but at the same time, they all do it differently. So, our LMS consulting services sort it out for buyers and help make decisions easy for them.

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How has your business changed in terms of the types of LMS consulting services you provide?

Curiously, it hasn’t changed much from an LMS consulting standpoint. During my years in sales, I became a student of buyers. And over time, I realized really good buyers kept me on my heels the whole time as a seller. I was never in control in those situations.

But there were also very poor buyers. And in those situations, I was always in control, driving each step of the sales process.

So, I thought if I defined a buying process that emulated the best buyers I knew, it could be a useful, repeatable process. And I developed that LMS consulting framework when I first founded Talented Learning.

Today, the process remains almost identical. That’s because it’s based on a buyer’s business goals and the metrics they use to define success.

Interesting…

What has changed is the technology. But the steps in writing an RFP and moving through a methodical selection process is essentially the same.

Also, Talented Learning has changed, because we offer much more than basic LMS consulting for buyers now.

We do a lot of work on the vendor side of the equation, helping organizations think through their strategy and differentiation. It’s almost the same process in reverse. Because many vendors are just as confused as buyers are. That’s because they have about 1000 competitors, and they aren’t sure if they are special.

All of our services and educational resources keep expanding…

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Speaking of educational resources, let’s talk about this podcast. It’s a convenient way for people to hear from you and other important voices in the industry…

Sure. All these conversations reflect my daily life in LMS consulting. When I’m talking with a vendor executive, we focus on who they serve and how they add value. Or if I’m interviewing a learning practitioner, I ask them questions that I would ask in one of the free 30-minute calls I conduct with potential LMS buyers.

Ahh…

By sharing these conversations on this podcast, I can help others learn how the best organizations are solving important business problems, how they’re succeeding, and how they measure results.

We explore all kinds of topics for the good of the learning community, especially those interested in external learning. So, the podcast has created an ecosystem of positive reinforcement for learning professionals.

And with 100 episodes, I assume you and your listeners have some favorites?

Absolutely. Only three people have returned multiple times. You’re one of them. I think you’ve been featured on several of our most popular shows.

Another popular guest is Dr. Karl Kapp of Commonwealth University in Bloomsburg, PA. He’s a well-known technology thought leader who is always fascinating. Also, Tamer Ali, CEO of Authentic Learning Labs is another very popular guest.

Awesome…

But my favorite guests are learning practitioners. I love talking with people who tell us how they went about solving a real challenge. They’re the best. We have about 60 or 70 of those episodes now. But in my mind, all of them teach us highly valuable lessons.

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Before we move to the lightning round, could you comment on where we are as an industry?

In 2025, it’s really hard to find a company that doesn’t have an LMS for internal training and development, whether that’s for 50 employees or 50,000. So, for employee LMS platforms, new business comes from replacing another employee LMS that’s already in place. It is now a zero-sum game.

But that’s not the case with customer learning and partner learning. Many organizations are on their first customer or partner LMS, or don’t yet have one. Of course, employee LMS vendors see this and are expanding their platforms to serve external audiences. So that’s the biggest recent LMS industry shift.

When I began LMS consulting early in 2014, I was alone with you, screaming from the rooftops about extended enterprise learning. At that time, only about 10-15% of organizations had any external LMS in place. Now, I think it’s closer to 75-80%.

Right. Another question I must ask is about AI. We could do a separate podcast on this alone. But how do you see it disrupting learning systems?

Disruption is already happening.

Three years ago, when vendors mentioned the word “artificial,” I would hear lots of “imagine this…” and generic references to things happening in the background. It was extremely easy to exaggerate, but extremely hard to show it in action.

Flash forward to 2025, and I can’t get through a briefing without an AI show-and-tell. Every learning vendor is implementing it in one way or another. And it is fascinating to see these advancements. Here are some examples…

…For the complete answer to this and all LMS consulting lightning-round questions, listen to the full episode on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, on Amazon, or right here on our site.